Video ‘Calling the bottom’ with Cathal Furey.

Firstly: just to apologise for the sound at the *start* of this discussion with @cathalfurey . I’d rather keep the audio than edit it. All noise is cut from the video after a minute.

**All guest’s are asked to wear earbuds or headsets.

Thanks to everyone that attended.

The chat:

C >> (All): Still no sign of Frank Fahey…>>

Trich >> (All): My sound is gone

Joe >> (All): too much noise from you without ear buds

Trich >> (All): ok

John Q Doe >> (All): Fianna Fail don’t matter anymore.   What matters is resolution of the outstanding issue of the debt overhang from both the credit boom and government overspending. Unless the people are willing to force the government to address this there can be no change.

Guest99 >> (All): How are independnets different from vanity candidates? Ral politics puts different visions created through public debate into the ring of electoral contest. Independents seem to be more like vanity candidates who ask us to trust them without any commitment to a shared public vision.

C >> (All): +1 John Q Doe.  Any government that tries to honour the guarantee will fail.  Not just because it is unmanageable, but more so because it is unfair.

Guest99 >> (All): What are the right reasons?

Trich >> (All): My belief is that people need to take more responsibility in how we are governed.

onestepbehind >> (All): good question – don’t they all start off with good intentions? How do you sift through it?

Ian Murphy >> (All): Cathal, do we not need to change electoral system to vote nationally as well as locally? Otherwise an election candidate must work locally ONLY to get elected.

liam >> (All): The internet will reach a limited amount of people in Ireland

Guest99 >> (All): A new political landcaspe will only be hopeful if it begins introducing the public back into politics inside and outside the Dail

civiccritic >> (All): It’s only shaping part of the nation, 1.8 million in the north are left out, a bleeding wound which is also at the base of why the Dáil is dysfunctional

John Q Doe >> (All): What I am not hearing from politicians is identification and resolution of the factors that are dragging us down. What I am seeing and hearing from politicians is changing tax and borrowing anyone pursuing this line of thinking is looking to preserve the status quo.

onestepbehind >> (All): I think we need to move away from”shure they can’t do any worse” personally I don’t want to vote for that reason. I know it’s a figure of speach but it’s not good enough to merely vote for someone because they are not FF/GP

civiccritic >> (All): A new government could but the new government won’t.

civiccritic >> (All): so don’t vote for them

civiccritic >> (All): It doesn’t matter

civiccritic >> (All): If they don’t lay out their position now before the vote they are charalatansliam >> (All): write to them

liam >> (All): talk to them

liam >> (All): don;t give your vote cheapl;y

civiccritic >> (All): they haven’t laid out their position clearly and unambiguously – that they repudiate this odious debt.

civiccritic >> (All): FG and labour are giving signals that they will work with the IMF, this is preposterous

Trich >> (All): Being accountable shows the maturity of a person/candite

Guest99 >> (All): Can I suggest the right reason is to re-engage and inspire the public to commit to a new vision for Ireland. Independents are only likely to offer a picknmix opportunity and will become an obstacle to a long term reform of Irish politics.

liam >> (All): The most peculiar thing to have happened in the last few months is the rise of slightly nutty ideologues, on the left and the right

liam >> (All): Can we have dome pragmatisim please?

liam >> (All): *some

liam >> (All): and some nation bulding, not relationary claptrap

civiccritic >> (All): engaging with this political system, this pantomime of an election, is the same as the leaders of the labour movement engaging with the IMF – Jack O’Connor in ‘productive’ talks with the IMF. He sold us Bertie Ahern social partnership, now he’s selling austerity partnership and not for our benefit.

Felim >> (All): HI there, listening but don’t want to turn off camera as I’m just out of the leaba…

Trich >> (All): My vision os to bring power back to people

civiccritic >> (All): i disagree. I believe Cowen is being freighted with all the opprobium of the previous 10 years, the better to make the rump that crawl around afterwards credible as a ‘we weren’t with him’ alternative. The rise again of the ever slippery FF

liam >> (All): right on TIm

Guest99 >> (All): agree Tim, we should be realistic that ge11 will not change anything unless it reinvigorates politics

Trich >> (All): Hear hear Tim

Felim >> (All): Voters in all elections want to see more of ‘us’ and less of ‘them’ in parliament. I think the definition of ‘us’ this time around will be more accommodating to non-politicians and outsiders, and there will be less room for the man from ballymagash.

Joe >> (All): switch off audio tim

civiccritic >> (All): FG and Labour won’t repudiate the 4 year deal. FG said they voted agianst the budget as a vote of confidence rather than as a rejection of the imf deal, they were at pains to make that clear. It’s clear therefore that they will lay this debt upon the people. They are charlatans

onestepbehind >> (All): Spot on Tim. shuffling seats on the titanic.

Joe >> (All): ear buds tim?

civiccritic >> (All): i doubt it’s the bottom, that’s just optics to put the blame on Cowen while th e rest of the ras scurry away from the light. There’s much wordse to come.

Tim Nelligan >> (All): Yes, Joe.

civiccritic >> (All): rats

civiccritic >> (All): engage with them alright, I’ve a bucket of piss here redy for the purpose

James Morris >> (All): I wish I had a door for FF to knock on..!

Felim >> (All): We have two Christian Democrat parties in this country — FF & FG. The duopoly suits them more than any merger would. Only electoral annihilation of one will end that. I wouldn’t bet on it though.

Trich >> (All): FG  won’t deal with the whistle blower in the IFSC. I need absolutely honesty

civiccritic >> (All): 250 billion in total

liam >> (All): I hav absolutely no faith in the ability of the current political class to resolve the situation we are currently in. Thats where I’m comming from.

civiccritic >> (All): sorry that era isn’t over, there are more debts to come that will be added

James Morris >> (All): What about Shane Ross & Paul Somerville & co? Independants all the way!

civiccritic >> (All): politics isn’ just voting oncew every 5 years. Politics is pressure throughout the 5 years, including robust civil disobedience

liam >> (All): genuiine independednts are possibly the best way to get the job done, if there is enough of them.

Trich >> (All): There is a group called Direct Democracy Ireland hoping to run in ge11

James Morris >> (All): who are they Trich?

civiccritic >> (All): I’ve been at a few marches where the SWP seem to dominate the speeches. Funnily enough these speeches always seem to defer the revolution until next week. ‘Go away back to your workplace’, ‘we’ll gather again next week’ – they never actually do anything

Guest99 >> (All): independents are losse cannons, anyone who has hope that they represent a way forward are fooling themselves. problem is that there are no partisan political choices to inspire us to become politicised

Trich >> (All): Mostly a group of ppl unemployed

Trich >> (All): A guy called Raymond Whitehead set DDI up

Guest99 >> (All): don’t tar collective politics with the same brush as FF/FG/L/G and left rump parties

onestepbehind >> (All): I agree liam – but the electorate will vote for who they think will cause them the least financial distress – you can question and fight but when they are in that’s when we lose our power.

Guest99 >> (All): independent politicians are unaccountable because they have no party commitment

John Q Doe >> (All): Fine Gael | Labour are old skool, they represent the status quo. They represesent the conservative middle class welfare state that is the majority in Ireland. The events that will unfold in the next few years, will also see their destruction.  This means the bottom does not come until the status quo breaks, it will not be on March 11.

TalentCoop >> (All): sorry

onestepbehind – think you’ver had all my comments – now set to All

James Morris >> (All): Party commitment..right..

James Morris >> (All): LIke the FF uberalles mentality..

liam >> (All): party politicians, those who are likely to be in power are accountable only to the party

onestepbehind >> (All): talentcoop – np,

civiccritic >> (All): is that product placement there with the water cathal?

Guest99 >> (All): without a party or collective association, independents present the worst of voting once every 5 years

James Morris >> (All): Cowen could be taoiseach, but not good enough to lead FF?? WTF

Tim Nelligan >> (All): Cathal, surely, that depends upon whether or not the 4yr plan is immutable, once passed, or not? How tightly will it be hammered-down? Will it even be negotiable and to what extent, if the EU views it/Ireland as the first line of defense of the euro?

C >> (All): This crisis is only begining, so to expect the 11th of March to mark the begining of our recovery is too optimistic.

C >> (All): Got to go, see you next time.

TalentCoop >> (All): bye

Trich >> (All): Agreed C, as Ireland runs out of money in March !

civiccritic >> (All): they’re worse than mindless drones, they’re cyncial self-serving conservatives who are preparing to sell us out

liam >> (All): Tim, the 4 yr plan will it seems lead to default, so yeah, i guess its mutable 🙂

onestepbehind >> (All): Cathal – that’s what they do – they have to, to secure the vote. The problem is they then enter a broken system.

James Morris >> (All): 2016 – Republic mark II

Guest99 >> (All): truly independent = no relationship or accountability to a vision shared by a community of the public

civiccritic >> (All): i would assert that the vote will not be a free vote, at least potentially. If you think the state is going to allow the possibility of Sinn Féin potentially holding the balance of power i think you should think again what the state is capable of

liam >> (All): Guest99, how does FF/FG/Lab represent a community vision right now?

Ian Murphy >> (All): Agree re political reform.

Guest99 >> (All): liam, they don’t

brian greene >> (All): Cathal – thats what can happen – but will it? that is not to say nothing will happen, FF will be wiped out, faces will change.

TalentCoop >> (All): The Big problem is it’s not EVERYBODY – many complain but don’t get involved and will voye to type – that needs change

liam >> (All): I tihnk you have a point, but I;m not sure that your critique of independents dones; also apply to the current party system

brian greene >> (All): our party has a right of recall on its Cllrs. and TDs and MEPs.

Cathal Furey >> (All): Agree 100% Brian

onestepbehind >> (All): If we want to have power then we have to make governments accountable every 2 years – and judge them on what they have done – not what they will do.

Trich >> (All): We are known by our deeds

onestepbehind. Long name 🙂

brian greene >> (All): Ireland & Greece no vote to diaspora. Greece lost a court case and will have to implement it. leaving Ireland the only european (EU) country with no vote for emigrants

Guest99 >> (All): liam, the trad parties of the dail are fossilised shells with no real connection to the public… in reality TDs are vanity candidates based in the parish pump

liam >> (All): largely, yes

TalentCoop >> (All): Diaspora in age from 80 plus downwards – massive tendency to vote with historic affiliation – probably give more of same

onestepbehind >> (All): OSB for short 😉  We allow them to get complacant – it;s like once they are in that’s it.

TalentCoop >> (All): what’s the story on online/postal voting ?

liam >> (All): guest99, so accountabilty, transparency are important, woudl you agree?onestepbehind >> (All): Look at the previous history wth Independants?

brian greene >> (All): we need to communicate with our diaspora too, and RTE needs to be forced to make available RTE International. This was legislated for.

Tim Nelligan >> (All): True, Brian. It is a disgrace that recent emigrants cannot access RTE online broadcasts.

Ian Murphy >> (All): The change will happen March 11….it will put people in the Dail that will work to get these things done.

brian greene >> (All): tim it should be on FreeSat and more online ROW without geo blocks

Joe >> (All): 5 minutes left folks – if you want to exchange twitter nics.. please follow @irishdebate

Trich >> (All): Change is always slow

Guest99 >> (All): accountability/transparency to a group or party is non-negotiable, otherwise you’re not a political representative, simply a pop idol

civiccritic >> (All): why the time limit?

brian greene >> (All): @briangreene

Tim Nelligan >> (All): On twitter, I am @tnteacherTim

Joe >> (All): I’ve about 4 hours work after this @civiccritic

civiccritic >> (All): fairy nuff

TalentCoop >> (All): on twitter  @TalentCoop

Ian Murphy >> (All): @imurphy

onestepbehind >> (All): I agree trich – but honesty, integrity and transparancy should be a given. We shouldn’t have to ask for that.

Trich >> (All): @TrichD

Tim Nelligan >> (All): Joe, thanks again for facilitating yet another interesting discussion.

brian greene >> (All): ah thats @TrichD hello

TalentCoop >> (All): Thanks all for this

Trich >> (All): We do tho OSB, we need to demand honesty!!

brian greene >> (All): tnx Joe

John Q Doe >> (All): @Cathal, there is a bottom coming, it only comes when the current policies are no longer tenable and seen to fail. Then and only THEN are people prepared to change. The March 11 election will be the last hold out of the old system. It’s good to have the talks now about the future.

TalentCoop >> (All): JonQ agree

civiccritic >> (All): streaming and screaming

brian greene >> (All): i agree

onestepbehind >> (All): thanks Cathal – thanks guys

John Q Doe >> (All): thanks guys

liam >> (All): Cheers, Cathal, Joe

TalentCoop >> (All): Thanks Joe

Trich >> (All): Thanks all 😉

Ian Murphy >> (All): Thanks Joe for hosting.

civiccritic >> (All): good inititiave on the video conference cathal

Tim Nelligan >> (All): Bye, all….

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