Ireland’s competitiveness debate

With thanks to @ronanlyons @stephenkinsella and @karldeeter and everyone that attended.

The chat and commentary.

Stephen Kinsella >> (All): Afternoon all.
karl deeter >> (All): hi SK!
Stephen Kinsella >> (All): (Can someone sort out my video? Joe?)
Stephen Kinsella >> (All): 🙂
karl deeter >> (All): @stephen Kinsella: your vid was fine? could see ya anyway
Stephen Kinsella >> (All): What about the Forfas Pyriamid of power Ronan?
karl deeter >> (All): mjm: that’s a micro reason why i’ll be investing in specsavers! 🙂
Stephen Kinsella >> (All): But is that just doing something *right*, or just simple demand and supply?
LorcanRK >> (All): Is that not harking back to the very pre 1950s that whitaker was saying we couldn’t rely on?
mmccutcheon >> (All): RT @politicsie: Government/@greenparty_ie Senator Dan Boyle (@SendBoyle) urges Ivor Callely to resign from the Seanád
Stephen Kinsella >> (All): What is ‘productivity’ in a services context though?
karl deeter >> (All): @SK it’s an output/utility argument surely?
mmccutcheon >> (All): Difficult to measure productivity in the services sector. Some services anyway
Stephen Kinsella >> (All): Not just difficult. Conceptually impossible as v. difficult to measure inputs/outputs. Problem is to define new terms, not new measures of old terms.
Stephen Kinsella >> (All): ‘Producitivity’ is a manufacturing/ 19thC term imho.
karl deeter >> (All): should we therefore refer to GNP contribution as the bar for how we measure services? what metric would work?
Stephen Kinsella >> (All):  One ‘Deeter’
karl deeter >> (All): where ‘deeter’ = x*unknown
mmccutcheon >> (All): two unknowns in an equation?
Rob Hartnett >> (All): Our wages in Ireland are still below EU average.
Rob Hartnett >> (All): sorry i cant hear you! sure it makes sense..
Stephen Byrne >> (All): yea
karl deeter >> (All): avg tax rate if you earn 18k is 6%
karl deeter >> (All): at 30k its 17%
LorcanRK >> (All): Is there an argument that it is in our non-tradable services (eg legal, medical consultant etc) where we are least competitive? Where the consumer is trapped is where there is the least competitiveness
online >> (All): rob come back in if you’ve lost audio
Rob Hartnett >> (All): But those tax rates are not high enough to provide the level of services we feel we deserve
mmccutcheon >> (All): Perhaps we need a review/reform of the seed capital scheme with a refocus on the qualifying activities?
karl deeter >> (All): tax rates are not high enough at certain levels for certain!
LorcanRK >> (All): Are you talking about a flat tax?
LorcanRK >> (All): If we are going to be serious about venture capital and innovation, then isn’t reform ofbankruptcy laws here essential?
Rob Hartnett >> (All): Sorry Ronan.  Sound not great so will have to duck out.
Rosaleen >> (All): Enterprise Ireland make applying impossible. Too much paper required. Then will ask for charts, etc. No encouragement.
Stephen Kinsella >> (All): Sorry, I’ve lost the audio
karl deeter >> (All): @LorcanRK very true, one thing they do well in the US isn’t that they don’t fail, its how they fail, it allows them to get back up
online >> (All): strange stephen come back in
Stephen Byrne >> (All): Someone suggested on the your country your call to define social networking and computer gaming sector as art, afford the exemption given to artists and watch the servers roll in
online >> (All): lock audio stephen
stephen kinsella >> (All): sorted.
karl deeter >> (All): as long as you have a caveat that it only counts once you have x ongoing jobs here maybe?
karl deeter >> (All): @mmccutcheon as a qualifying piece of criteria I don’t see what the issue is, IDA did it all the time!
LorcanRK >> (All): That sounds like the opposite of the public service,
stephen kinsella >> (All): Read this today, very interesting in terms of running large companies in an efficient way:
LorcanRK >> (All): Never worked in the pS, but competitiveness seems to be measured on a cost base rather then an production base
Aoibhin de Burca >> (All): How do we encourage a culture of what you are talking about in the public sector?
karl deeter >> (All): @LorcanRK or they are based on tasks as opposed to actual cost v.s. output.
LorcanRK >> (All): Yes, Karl. probably more correct.
LorcanRK >> (All): You don’t get fired..
LorcanRK >> (All): There is a strong sense of competition in the private sector. “If we don;t get that contract, I could be out of a job”  which does not exist in the publis sector
karl deeter >> (All): i already know what 2050 will look like, read SK’s book!
LorcanRK >> (All): He wrote that all the way back on 2009 though…
stephen kinsella >> (All): New edition–Ireland in 2051!
ray >> (All): What about Minister Ryan who lets the CER tell lies, how can you have improvement when a Minister covers up illegal activity to protect his political appointees
LorcanRK >> (All): Like reeling in the years, only in reverse , Stephen?
stephen kinsella >> (All): but with better music, Lorcan
Elke Hayes >> (All): Can’t hear Karl
mmccutcheon >> (All): Any comments from the education sector on the PS wages issue raised by Ronan?
karl deeter >> (All): you really aren’t living up to the moniker of a practitioner of the ‘dismal science’!
mmccutcheon >> (All): Could be.
LorcanRK >> (All): So, will the government have to fill the gap with more PPS? We’ll be tolled to get out of bed if we rely on private sector to meet the capital deficit from reduced gov spending
Stephen Byrne >> (All): How do we get rid of the subcommittee on the number of subcommittees in the department of red tape?
mmccutcheon >> (All): How do you measure productivity in teaching?
stephen kinsella >> (All): Exactly!
mmccutcheon >> (All): Perhaps get soundings back from the pupils?
Stephen Byrne >> (All): Ive heard Leeson Street does that, is that true?
LorcanRK >> (All): So, iso14001 for teachers?
Elke Hayes >> (All): Is Karl’s microphone on? Can’t hear a word.
LorcanRK >> (All): I can hear karl fine
Stephen Kearon >> (All): Rather than welfare cuts, do we not need to focus more on detecting fraud, last year €484m was recovered in fraud detection measures, however RTE’s Primetime reported actual fraud at €2-3billion
karl deeter >> (All): @mccutcheon my gauge would be profit with longevity
LorcanRK >> (All): Bastard!
LorcanRK >> (All): It is taxed as income though
mmccutcheon >> (All): Why don’t u ask the widows?
LorcanRK >> (All): Believe me, He is.. mcm#
Rosaleen >> (All): Back to school allowance unreceipted. Why?
karl deeter >> (All): damn good point, we have a concept of ‘service isn’t acceptable’ but with no relation to price or cost of same
LorcanRK >> (All): If you want to get into a discussion, I’ll give you one Ronan, widows allowance is my main source of income.
LorcanRK >> (All): We need Terry Pratchett’s Patrician to run the place.
Rosaleen >> (All): Thanks, mmccutcheon.
kevin >> (All): Thanks again everyone
karl deeter >> (All): really glad to have listened in today, great job ronan!
Stephen Byrne >> (All): Thanks 🙂
stephen kinsella >> (All): Thanks Ronan
LorcanRK >> (All): thanks Ronan
Ronan >> (All): thanks everyone!
>> (All): This meeting is no longer being recorded.
stephen >> (All): good show fella
Stephen Kearon >> (All): thank you

One thought on “Ireland’s competitiveness debate

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