Firstly: just to apologise for the sound at the *start* of this discussion with @cathalfurey . I’d rather keep the audio than edit it. All noise is cut from the video after a minute.
**All guest’s are asked to wear earbuds or headsets.
Thanks to everyone that attended.
The chat:
C >> (All): Still no sign of Frank Fahey…>>
Trich >> (All): My sound is gone
Joe >> (All): too much noise from you without ear buds
Trich >> (All): ok
John Q Doe >> (All): Fianna Fail don’t matter anymore. What matters is resolution of the outstanding issue of the debt overhang from both the credit boom and government overspending. Unless the people are willing to force the government to address this there can be no change.
Guest99 >> (All): How are independnets different from vanity candidates? Ral politics puts different visions created through public debate into the ring of electoral contest. Independents seem to be more like vanity candidates who ask us to trust them without any commitment to a shared public vision.
C >> (All): +1 John Q Doe. Any government that tries to honour the guarantee will fail. Not just because it is unmanageable, but more so because it is unfair.
Guest99 >> (All): What are the right reasons?
Trich >> (All): My belief is that people need to take more responsibility in how we are governed.
onestepbehind >> (All): good question – don’t they all start off with good intentions? How do you sift through it?
Ian Murphy >> (All): Cathal, do we not need to change electoral system to vote nationally as well as locally? Otherwise an election candidate must work locally ONLY to get elected.
liam >> (All): The internet will reach a limited amount of people in Ireland
Guest99 >> (All): A new political landcaspe will only be hopeful if it begins introducing the public back into politics inside and outside the Dail
civiccritic >> (All): It’s only shaping part of the nation, 1.8 million in the north are left out, a bleeding wound which is also at the base of why the Dáil is dysfunctional
John Q Doe >> (All): What I am not hearing from politicians is identification and resolution of the factors that are dragging us down. What I am seeing and hearing from politicians is changing tax and borrowing anyone pursuing this line of thinking is looking to preserve the status quo.
onestepbehind >> (All): I think we need to move away from”shure they can’t do any worse” personally I don’t want to vote for that reason. I know it’s a figure of speach but it’s not good enough to merely vote for someone because they are not FF/GP
civiccritic >> (All): A new government could but the new government won’t.
civiccritic >> (All): so don’t vote for them
civiccritic >> (All): It doesn’t matter
civiccritic >> (All): If they don’t lay out their position now before the vote they are charalatansliam >> (All): write to them
liam >> (All): talk to them
liam >> (All): don;t give your vote cheapl;y
civiccritic >> (All): they haven’t laid out their position clearly and unambiguously – that they repudiate this odious debt.
civiccritic >> (All): FG and labour are giving signals that they will work with the IMF, this is preposterous
Trich >> (All): Being accountable shows the maturity of a person/candite
Guest99 >> (All): Can I suggest the right reason is to re-engage and inspire the public to commit to a new vision for Ireland. Independents are only likely to offer a picknmix opportunity and will become an obstacle to a long term reform of Irish politics.
liam >> (All): The most peculiar thing to have happened in the last few months is the rise of slightly nutty ideologues, on the left and the right
liam >> (All): Can we have dome pragmatisim please?
liam >> (All): *some
liam >> (All): and some nation bulding, not relationary claptrap
civiccritic >> (All): engaging with this political system, this pantomime of an election, is the same as the leaders of the labour movement engaging with the IMF – Jack O’Connor in ‘productive’ talks with the IMF. He sold us Bertie Ahern social partnership, now he’s selling austerity partnership and not for our benefit.
Felim >> (All): HI there, listening but don’t want to turn off camera as I’m just out of the leaba…
Trich >> (All): My vision os to bring power back to people
civiccritic >> (All): i disagree. I believe Cowen is being freighted with all the opprobium of the previous 10 years, the better to make the rump that crawl around afterwards credible as a ‘we weren’t with him’ alternative. The rise again of the ever slippery FF
liam >> (All): right on TIm
Guest99 >> (All): agree Tim, we should be realistic that ge11 will not change anything unless it reinvigorates politics
Trich >> (All): Hear hear Tim
Felim >> (All): Voters in all elections want to see more of ‘us’ and less of ‘them’ in parliament. I think the definition of ‘us’ this time around will be more accommodating to non-politicians and outsiders, and there will be less room for the man from ballymagash.
Joe >> (All): switch off audio tim
civiccritic >> (All): FG and Labour won’t repudiate the 4 year deal. FG said they voted agianst the budget as a vote of confidence rather than as a rejection of the imf deal, they were at pains to make that clear. It’s clear therefore that they will lay this debt upon the people. They are charlatans
onestepbehind >> (All): Spot on Tim. shuffling seats on the titanic.
Joe >> (All): ear buds tim?
civiccritic >> (All): i doubt it’s the bottom, that’s just optics to put the blame on Cowen while th e rest of the ras scurry away from the light. There’s much wordse to come.
Tim Nelligan >> (All): Yes, Joe.
civiccritic >> (All): rats
civiccritic >> (All): engage with them alright, I’ve a bucket of piss here redy for the purpose
James Morris >> (All): I wish I had a door for FF to knock on..!
Felim >> (All): We have two Christian Democrat parties in this country — FF & FG. The duopoly suits them more than any merger would. Only electoral annihilation of one will end that. I wouldn’t bet on it though.
Trich >> (All): FG won’t deal with the whistle blower in the IFSC. I need absolutely honesty
civiccritic >> (All): 250 billion in total
liam >> (All): I hav absolutely no faith in the ability of the current political class to resolve the situation we are currently in. Thats where I’m comming from.
civiccritic >> (All): sorry that era isn’t over, there are more debts to come that will be added
James Morris >> (All): What about Shane Ross & Paul Somerville & co? Independants all the way!
civiccritic >> (All): politics isn’ just voting oncew every 5 years. Politics is pressure throughout the 5 years, including robust civil disobedience
liam >> (All): genuiine independednts are possibly the best way to get the job done, if there is enough of them.
Trich >> (All): There is a group called Direct Democracy Ireland hoping to run in ge11
James Morris >> (All): who are they Trich?
civiccritic >> (All): I’ve been at a few marches where the SWP seem to dominate the speeches. Funnily enough these speeches always seem to defer the revolution until next week. ‘Go away back to your workplace’, ‘we’ll gather again next week’ – they never actually do anything
Guest99 >> (All): independents are losse cannons, anyone who has hope that they represent a way forward are fooling themselves. problem is that there are no partisan political choices to inspire us to become politicised
Trich >> (All): Mostly a group of ppl unemployed
Trich >> (All): A guy called Raymond Whitehead set DDI up
Guest99 >> (All): don’t tar collective politics with the same brush as FF/FG/L/G and left rump parties
onestepbehind >> (All): I agree liam – but the electorate will vote for who they think will cause them the least financial distress – you can question and fight but when they are in that’s when we lose our power.
Guest99 >> (All): independent politicians are unaccountable because they have no party commitment
John Q Doe >> (All): Fine Gael | Labour are old skool, they represent the status quo. They represesent the conservative middle class welfare state that is the majority in Ireland. The events that will unfold in the next few years, will also see their destruction. This means the bottom does not come until the status quo breaks, it will not be on March 11.
TalentCoop >> (All): sorry
onestepbehind – think you’ver had all my comments – now set to All
James Morris >> (All): Party commitment..right..
James Morris >> (All): LIke the FF uberalles mentality..
liam >> (All): party politicians, those who are likely to be in power are accountable only to the party
onestepbehind >> (All): talentcoop – np,
civiccritic >> (All): is that product placement there with the water cathal?
Guest99 >> (All): without a party or collective association, independents present the worst of voting once every 5 years
James Morris >> (All): Cowen could be taoiseach, but not good enough to lead FF?? WTF
Tim Nelligan >> (All): Cathal, surely, that depends upon whether or not the 4yr plan is immutable, once passed, or not? How tightly will it be hammered-down? Will it even be negotiable and to what extent, if the EU views it/Ireland as the first line of defense of the euro?
C >> (All): This crisis is only begining, so to expect the 11th of March to mark the begining of our recovery is too optimistic.
C >> (All): Got to go, see you next time.
TalentCoop >> (All): bye
Trich >> (All): Agreed C, as Ireland runs out of money in March !
civiccritic >> (All): they’re worse than mindless drones, they’re cyncial self-serving conservatives who are preparing to sell us out
liam >> (All): Tim, the 4 yr plan will it seems lead to default, so yeah, i guess its mutable 
onestepbehind >> (All): Cathal – that’s what they do – they have to, to secure the vote. The problem is they then enter a broken system.
James Morris >> (All): 2016 – Republic mark II
Guest99 >> (All): truly independent = no relationship or accountability to a vision shared by a community of the public
civiccritic >> (All): i would assert that the vote will not be a free vote, at least potentially. If you think the state is going to allow the possibility of Sinn Féin potentially holding the balance of power i think you should think again what the state is capable of
liam >> (All): Guest99, how does FF/FG/Lab represent a community vision right now?
Ian Murphy >> (All): Agree re political reform.
Guest99 >> (All): liam, they don’t
brian greene >> (All): Cathal – thats what can happen – but will it? that is not to say nothing will happen, FF will be wiped out, faces will change.
TalentCoop >> (All): The Big problem is it’s not EVERYBODY – many complain but don’t get involved and will voye to type – that needs change
liam >> (All): I tihnk you have a point, but I;m not sure that your critique of independents dones; also apply to the current party system
brian greene >> (All): our party has a right of recall on its Cllrs. and TDs and MEPs.
Cathal Furey >> (All): Agree 100% Brian
onestepbehind >> (All): If we want to have power then we have to make governments accountable every 2 years – and judge them on what they have done – not what they will do.
Trich >> (All): We are known by our deeds
onestepbehind. Long name
brian greene >> (All): Ireland & Greece no vote to diaspora. Greece lost a court case and will have to implement it. leaving Ireland the only european (EU) country with no vote for emigrants
Guest99 >> (All): liam, the trad parties of the dail are fossilised shells with no real connection to the public… in reality TDs are vanity candidates based in the parish pump
liam >> (All): largely, yes
TalentCoop >> (All): Diaspora in age from 80 plus downwards – massive tendency to vote with historic affiliation – probably give more of same
onestepbehind >> (All): OSB for short 
We allow them to get complacant – it;s like once they are in that’s it.
TalentCoop >> (All): what’s the story on online/postal voting ?
liam >> (All): guest99, so accountabilty, transparency are important, woudl you agree?onestepbehind >> (All): Look at the previous history wth Independants?
brian greene >> (All): we need to communicate with our diaspora too, and RTE needs to be forced to make available RTE International. This was legislated for.
Tim Nelligan >> (All): True, Brian. It is a disgrace that recent emigrants cannot access RTE online broadcasts.
Ian Murphy >> (All): The change will happen March 11….it will put people in the Dail that will work to get these things done.
brian greene >> (All): tim it should be on FreeSat and more online ROW without geo blocks
Joe >> (All): 5 minutes left folks – if you want to exchange twitter nics.. please follow @irishdebate
Trich >> (All): Change is always slow
Guest99 >> (All): accountability/transparency to a group or party is non-negotiable, otherwise you’re not a political representative, simply a pop idol
civiccritic >> (All): why the time limit?
brian greene >> (All): @briangreene
Tim Nelligan >> (All): On twitter, I am @tnteacherTim
Joe >> (All): I’ve about 4 hours work after this @civiccritic
civiccritic >> (All): fairy nuff
TalentCoop >> (All): on twitter @TalentCoop
Ian Murphy >> (All): @imurphy
onestepbehind >> (All): I agree trich – but honesty, integrity and transparancy should be a given. We shouldn’t have to ask for that.
Trich >> (All): @TrichD
Tim Nelligan >> (All): Joe, thanks again for facilitating yet another interesting discussion.
brian greene >> (All): ah thats @TrichD hello
TalentCoop >> (All): Thanks all for this
Trich >> (All): We do tho OSB, we need to demand honesty!!
brian greene >> (All): tnx Joe
John Q Doe >> (All): @Cathal, there is a bottom coming, it only comes when the current policies are no longer tenable and seen to fail. Then and only THEN are people prepared to change. The March 11 election will be the last hold out of the old system. It’s good to have the talks now about the future.
TalentCoop >> (All): JonQ agree
civiccritic >> (All): streaming and screaming
brian greene >> (All): i agree
onestepbehind >> (All): thanks Cathal – thanks guys
John Q Doe >> (All): thanks guys
liam >> (All): Cheers, Cathal, Joe
TalentCoop >> (All): Thanks Joe
Trich >> (All): Thanks all
Ian Murphy >> (All): Thanks Joe for hosting.
civiccritic >> (All): good inititiave on the video conference cathal
Tim Nelligan >> (All): Bye, all….
